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Give us the time as well as the place.

Permalink Comments (29)26 January 2007 at 12:39 by James Allsworth
Posted under Boring but necessary announcements

London Falling- Image A47BRD© Arthur Steel
© Arthur SteelIt can make or break a sale. For some clients, particularly those in the text book and travel industries, having the date an image was taken is very important. They want to know if those palm trees still line that beach. They want to make sure that the quaint looking town square is still a town square…not a block of flats.

Customers also look for images from a historical perspective. They may need a picture of London from the 1980’s, a 1960’s school playground, or a genuine 1970’s perm...Who knows? But you can see why giving them this information may help customers buy your images.

We know that annotating your images with the date taken enhances their sales potential. To add dates to your images simply go to My Alamy and click Manage my images. If you don’t know the exact date your image was taken hold off for now. You will soon be able to add just the year rather than the full date. Not only will this be an ideal opportunity to sit back and reminisce of times gone by, it may also result in a few extra sales in the future.

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Add your own commentComments (29)

  1. 26 January 2007 at 13:25 Luc Novovitch

    Photographers, pros and amateurs alike, are reluctant to put a date. For a very simple reason: most don't shoot enough to renew their stock, which will appear old pretty rapidly. When selling through outlets like Alamy, the consensus seems to be that the more variety and the more pictures a photographer has, the more chances of selling. The question is: what incentive a photographer would have to date his images? I understand it makes sense from your point of view. What from ours? What's the point in dating an image that will appear on page 29 or 65 or whatever of a search because of the ranking system you established will not promote a dated picture? My suggestion: put the date in the factoring for your ranking system, which will boost the recent pictures up the ladder. Photographers will have an incentive to date their pictures.

  2. 26 January 2007 at 13:30 Nick Lewis

    Question - If I make sure my IPTC date data is filled in correctly, will this be imported alongside keywords and caption data? It will save time that way when adding images to the catalogue...

  3. 26 January 2007 at 13:38 Lourens Smak

    Nick, yes that will work, I have been doing that for quite some time and all those images have the correct shooting date in the extra info, on the alamy website, automagically... :-)

  4. 26 January 2007 at 13:43 Pat Lam

    All digital camera has the info of date shot. Alamy can just import the date of the images got shot to the file info. Clients has all rights to know when it is being shot. This practice already long exist in Japan.

  5. 26 January 2007 at 15:58 Lourens Smak

    Pat, the time & date go into the exif info when shooting. The date for the Alamy database is from the IPTC info. (which is empty if you don't add anything yourself...)

  6. 26 January 2007 at 16:37 Paul

    Is there any plan in the works for Alamy to import this data from exif? Or, does anyone know of a script that will copy exif data to iptc for this field?

  7. 26 January 2007 at 16:42 Pat Lam

    Lourens,

    My Image info has description, Camera data 1 and 2, categories, history, origin, and Advance. etc. These were attached automatically with all camera data, shooting time, date, aperture. I cannot changed them. I used PS CS.

  8. 26 January 2007 at 17:40 chris

    Hi everybody!

    Are You using iView Multimedia?
    As there is a script for annotations called "IPTC date from Capture date"

    Kind regards

  9. 26 January 2007 at 19:29 idmurray

    It seems we are only getting half of the message here:

    * what new tools are to be introduced to enable us to retrospectively make bulk additional data entries and where should such data go - presumabbly not the descroption field since it might or might not be phased out?
    * what new data entry fields are to be introduced for online keywording of future submissions/ or guidance on embedding IPTC data?
    * information about new search facilities perhaps in Advanced search that will allow picture researchers to access this new data in a uniform way

  10. 26 January 2007 at 22:14 Peter Crighton

    My photos have not had the info added automatically (because it does not seem to have been transferred from EXIF into IPTC date).

    My current workflow is:
    * Nikon View to get images off card and add any generic IPTC info
    * Import into Picture Project where I add captions and keywords
    * Edit in Nikon Capture for basic settings
    * Edit in Photoshop for any alterations needing layers
    * Batch export from Photoshop as JPEG

    No where in those applications can I see anything that will copy the EXIF shooting date to the IPTC date. Is there some software that can do that? I don't want to do it manually but want an automated method of doing this.

  11. 26 January 2007 at 22:22 chris

    Hi Peter

    The answer is No 8

    regards

  12. 27 January 2007 at 00:28 Simon Meeds

    The new Microsoft Photo Info tool has a check box "use the EXIF capture date if available" which should allow you to bulk set the IPTC create date to the EXIF date.

    You can find the tool at
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/photoinfo.mspx

  13. 27 January 2007 at 01:08 Lourens Smak

    Pat, in PS CS (which I also use) there is a "date" in the "origin" tab. This date goes into the Alamy database.

    This field should be empty except maybe if you have set up your software to add this stuff when you download from the camera/card.

  14. 27 January 2007 at 07:59 Jeremy Nicholl

    James Allsworth wrote:
    "We know that annotating your images with the date taken enhances their sales potential. To add dates to your images simply go to My Alamy and click Manage my images."

    And Lourens Smak wrote:
    "Nick, yes that will work, I have been doing that for quite some time and all those images have the correct shooting date in the extra info, on the alamy website, automagically... :-)"

    But it's not visible to clients before they download, which is the way it should be. I can't see it anywhere: where is it?

    My images also have all the IPTC info, but the date is only visible to me, when I go to the extra options in Manage My Images, which isn't much use to clients.

    The date is visible on my images, but only because I also put it in the caption field. Personally I think correct and public dating of images should be compulsory at Alamy, not optional, at least for editorial material. It is at all my other agents: it's regarded regarded as basic pro stuff.

    Alamy should make it simple by having a field which automatically extracts the IPTC date info and displays along with the caption and keywords.

  15. 27 January 2007 at 09:00 Bettina

    Some cameras, like the EOS 1DS, automatically export the date the photo was taken into Alamy captioning (as Jeremy said - into the extra options of Manage My Images), others, like the EOS 350D, don't.

  16. 27 January 2007 at 13:13 Pat Lam

    Lourens, That is correct. Thanks!
    Pat

  17. 29 January 2007 at 18:33 Bill Brooks

    Some locations change over time, some locations do not, so dating an image will not tell you if a location has changed. One secret of making money at stock is to create images that do not date themselves because of subject matter or style and therefore sell for an eternity. Any professional stock photographer will regularly cull their images that are both dated and have no historical value. For instance I now have a number of my Alamy Toronto skylines marked for deletion, because someone put up some new buildings. If you cannot return to a location to check in person, a check of other images of the same location in any stock library should suffice. Alamy should emphasize this contributor responsibility.

  18. 31 January 2007 at 02:31 John-Mark Odero

    The date issue has always bugged me as much as the description words affecting search results. Considering Alamy's open shop business model the way both these issues is handled is zany. Alamy should require an accurate date for ALL images posted.

    I am reluctant to date my images because I don't want a photo researcher to dismiss my images because they are a 2 yrs old while someone has a similar image with no date on it. I have never run a stock agency but it would seem that if you have an old image its better not to have a date on it so the potential buyer can't tell easily that its out dated.

    I think by forcing everyone to put an accurate date on their images and having photographers self police the library some order can be restored. I know for a fact that a number of images on Alamy from other photographers of places I've shot are way out dated. The insult to injury is when that outdated stuff shows up ahead of my up to date stuff in the search order! There is no way for me to give Alamy the heads up on this stuff. So what do I do? I leave the dates off my images and join the masses.

    Alamy has stated instance where a date may help, but they haven't addressed instance where a date may hurt. They should just have one strict policy that aids researchers and forces photographers to shoot up to date images.

  19. 31 January 2007 at 22:46 Ian M Butterfield

    I suppose it depends on what you specialise in. I'm pretty sure I lost a sale a couple of years back because when asked for the date I had to admit that a particular photo was over two years old. Alamy phoned me up and asked me for the date because the customer needed it. What was the photo? It was a sphinx at Luxor temple in Egypt. It's a close up photo and there are no modern features in it. (A6D094). That sphinx hasn't changed in in the last 3000 years. So why does it matter when the photo was taken?

  20. 31 January 2007 at 22:57 Alan Haynes

    I think the best way to handle dates on stock photos is to add them once the photo is a few years old. Then, it might be marketable as a historic photo. What "a few years old" means should be up to each photographer. Only certain types of photos would seem to benefit from this strategy: travel photos for one.

    Other than that, I'd rather keep the dates private.

    I WOULD like to hear more specific information about this subject from Alamy and photo buyers. How about some specific examples of buyers who needed to know the date?

    Alan Haynes
    www.alanhaynes.com

  21. 01 February 2007 at 15:13 John Burkowski

    I'm geezer in the photography biz, but new to the stock industry and after a ton of research have chosen Alamy to represent my images.

    I'm about to send in my first 10 images for the QC test. I'm not exactly sure how best to title my images.

    Check out this from Ernest H. Robl: http://www.robl.w1.com/aspp-image.htm

    I realize this was written in 98 but I think his
    approach is solid and simple.

    If I read this correctly, my first image would look something like this: 07JB0001. This would allow me to submit up to 1000 images for every year I have been a photographer.

    You could add another 0 for the really prolific. In my case I could potentially have 35000 images simply nanmed, easy to find and easy to cull as they put some age on.

    From what I understand, to be fully backward compatable with older computers and OS's the title should have no more than 8 characters and no spaces.

    It's may too late for existing contributors but for newbies it might be a good thing. Seems that Alamay should have a standard or at least a titleing recommendation or guidline for all of us to follow, if they don't already, so were all on the same page so to speak. It seems to me it would also be easier for them.

    Im looking for an industry standard that would work across all platforms and with all agencies.
    Any feedback or advice would be very welcome.

    John B

  22. 01 February 2007 at 15:41 Humberto Olarte Cupas

    John B,

    I can only speak about Windows-based OSs. The last Windows that couldn't read long file names was Win 3.1 or so. If I recall correctly, Windows 95 and on can read those long file names. And that was 12 years ago. I really doubt there are still computers on the publishing business that run OS that can't read those filenames.

    So you can name your files freely. What I do is cameramodel_yearmonthday_imagenumber And it is done automatically by the utility I use to download the images from the CF card.

    Cheers,

    Humberto

  23. 01 February 2007 at 17:06 John Burkowski

    Hi Humberto,

    For the sake of discussion I found this: http://www.portfoliofaq.com/pfaq/FAQ00352.htm
    See, Some final thoughts at the bottom.

    And this copied and pasted from: http://www.portfoliofaq.com/pfaq/FAQ00198.htm

    "8.3 Naming (meaning 8 characters with a 3 letter extension) The following restriction has changed over time and reviewing this (in late 2004), the real need for 8.3 naming is certainly far less necessary than a few years ago. Still, if in doubt, I restrict myself to 8.3 for although Win32 systems allow filenames of up to 255 characters (Mac, pre-OSX, allows only 31) many cross-platform systems only work with 8.3 names - even worse they often don't advertise this fact (e.g. Adobe Acrobat can get grouchy with long filenames and/or spaces in names/paths). So for ease for use working cross-platform Win/Mac do consider 8.3 names. Of course, you could use a longer name/syntax if your OS and process so allows."

    I'm thinking it's highly possible that in third world countries especially emerging markets like India and China, some folks may not be using current OS's which may potentially limit access

    I also found this: http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/imagedatabases/filename_limits.html

    see LIMITS TO FILE LENGTH at the bottom.

    John B

  24. 02 February 2007 at 02:52 D.Dempster

    I tried to make it as simple as possible. My first digitally captured image was D000001 and I just increase incrementally as I process images. The first scanned 35mm image was FS000001 and the first scanned medium format image was FM000001. It's not fancy but it works. If I need to find images by date I just do a sort in Extensis Portfolio by date.

  25. 04 February 2007 at 12:22 David Kilpatrick

    I will normally only date an image if it clearly needs dating. I am still selling images shot 30+ years ago. There are some cases where the date looks very old indeed (20 years) but repeating the shot is impossible because of development, yet that's the shot the trade (travel) still wants. Often, the actual subject and its surroundings may not have changed at all, you just can't see it from the original best viewpoint. The public can still see it. Or annoying signs, or scaffolding, may be permanently in place for a period of many years. There was a spell of around ten years where no library could secure new images of the Taj Mahal because it was under scaffolding (now past, I assume on the basis of recent shots sent to me). There's a danger that if all files were mandatorily dated, and the date was searchable, clients would just look for this year or 2 years. At any time that I've been involved in stock, that would hacve rendered shooting non-viable. Back in the 1980s and 90s it used to take a year before many pix found their way into agency catalogues and those were expected to have a further year and more of life. Sales used to begin six months after a shot was taken and peak maybe 2 years after, but continue for ever. I've just removed a 2005 date from a group of my shots of Prague; in 2007, even 2005 sounds old.

  26. 07 February 2007 at 10:36 idmurray

    If publishers really want transparency here then shouldn't they be adding the date, or indicate date as unknown, to their captions? That would concentrate photographer minds. Somehow I doubt that a buyer taking out a 15 year book licence really wants to do this.

  27. 07 February 2007 at 18:54 Richard Wayman

    Since we are talking about copyright material - our images - then surely the date of creation of that material should be made visible?
    I always include date in the description field probably from newspaper training - the When, Where, What regime.

  28. 20 February 2007 at 10:15 geof

    There will not be any times or places left if the following happens.

    Dr Jenny Whiting
    Picture Editor
    Medical Photographic Library
    Wellcome Trust

    'The UK Govt are about to propose restrictions on photography in public
    places which could make street photography and documentary photography
    against the law. There's a petition on the Downing St website against
    the Government's proposals to restrict the use of photography in
    public areas.

    Sign up to the petition now

    http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Photography/

  29. 20 February 2007 at 23:17 Ian M Butterfield

    Alamy have requested that we don't use this blog as forum. For those who want to discus topics raised in the blog might want to do as here:
    http://forum.iphotos.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=4792

    And for a discusion on the restriciton on public photography in the UK:
    http://forum.iphotos.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=4794

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